Author: Steve Amato
Description: Objections to Local Church Critique
Keywords: bible study,witness lee, watchman nee, local church, purgatory, overcome, perseverance of the saints, faith, easy-believism, plymouth brethren, hightruth, high gospel

Local Church Responder
My bibles ESV and ampl say

1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. He will be saved, but only as through fire!!!!

1Co 3:15 But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire. [Job 23:10.]

"All the unconfessed sins and all the sins that have not passed through the blood of the Lord Jesus leave their uncleaness on the person. This uncleanness will cause one to lose his share in the coming kingdom" (Meaning they get thrown into the eternal fire for a time) --WITNESS LEE Steve there are crowns and they are earned according to the Bible.
What does the scripture say about not forgiving? See Matthew. God cannot forgive you unless you forgive OTHERS.

ALSO 1Jn 1:9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].

I am glad to see the local church's new evangelistic effort. See the following web site: http://www.gtca.us/.
Be an overcomer!
Jim
ps
I don't see the presence of Christ in your internet literature!!
I am new to the Local Church. I see the presence of Christ there. They are not perfect like you seem to act like. I disagree with much of what you have written on your website. You put only those responses that you approve of. Many of them are very weak!!! I read the Bible not just the
recovery version and I read more old literature like from Zindendorf, Nee, Law and other seasoned authors including Moody, Spurgeon, Finney, Wesley etc. I believe I know what I believe.
No need to respond to this. Jesus had problems with the Jewish religious elite. He was controversial. I believe Him and not his antagonists. I challenge you to put this response on your web page.
Look to Christ, not to religion,
Jim

BCBSR Response
1Cor 3:11-15 is speaking of losing things as one would loss possessions in a house fire. What is lost are potential rewards. But what the Local Church teaches in their purgatory scenario is not simply loss of rewards. And yes, I myself quote from Local Church literature the very same quote that you quote.
Furthermore they say, "If a person has become a Christian but his hands or feet sin all the time, he will suffer the punishment of the eternal fire in the kingdom of the heavens. He will not suffer this punishment eternally, but will suffer it only in the age of the kingdom"
Wouldn't you agree that it's one thing to lose one's possessions in a fire. But quite a different thing to be tortured in fire until you pay back all you owe? Maybe you don't see a difference between the two. But a whole lot of people, like myself, do see a difference.
Is it about earning rewards for services rendered? Or is it about paying for sins which were not covered by the blood of Christ? The Local Church teaches the latter. Notice even in the statement you quoted, "all the sins that have not passed through the blood of the Lord Jesus" And that's consistent with their other statements on the matter such as, "If a Christian has any unrepented of and unconfessed sins, which are not forgiven, he will suffer the Gehenna of fire." and "In the coming age, there is still the possibility of forgiveness, but one cannot come out until he pays the last quadrans and clears up everything with his brother."
Their purgatorial scenario is not even about sanctification. It's about justification. They believe that a person can pay for his own sins by being tormented in fire sufficiently. That being the case, Christ needn't have died. For if a person can be justified by being tortured, then all those in hell would eventually pay for their own sins and be saved, regardless of whether they believed in Christ or not.
Seems to me they're treating Christ's blood as a rather common thing in reckoning that forgiveness of sins can be attained apart from the blood of Christ, by simply being tortured sufficiently. Yet you're glad at their new "evangelistic effort".
You also mention Matthew claiming "God cannot forgive you unless you forgive OTHERS." What you fail to realize is that Jesus was talking about diagnosing a person's salvation status. He was talking about gaining salvation. But of course implied in the Local Church purgatory theology is a gospel of justification by works. As I've written about abundantly throughout the over 2000 web pages I've written on the bcbsr.com site, those who are born of God do behave as children of God should because it is in their nature to do so ("My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 and "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 One aspect of this natural behavior of children of God is forgiving one's brother. The Local Church in its Free Grace theology has fabricated an artificial category of people that don't actually exist in their insistence that those born of God can continue to live a lifestyle of sin. But to make anything - any work you do - as a precondition for salvation is to preach salvation by works. If you think a person must forgive others in order to obtain salvation, you must have a whole list of things a person must do to be saved, much like some in the early church had made salvation contingent upon obedience to the Law of Moses - like the 10 commandments. How good must a person perform before he by saved by your account? As I see it "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved". What a person does, having been saved, does not impinge on his salvation status.
But of course I'm sure you read my site thoroughly before you commented saying that you don't see the presence of Christ in my internet literature. Afterall it says, "He who answers before listening— that is his folly and his shame." Pr 18:13 So I'm sure you thoroughly examined my internet literature before making such a judgement.
Now you say you're new to their church, so given that they try and put on a different public face than private face, you may have yet to encounter their private teachings which they try to avoid saying publically, such as I had noted on my web page and the following also:
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ON THE NATURE OF GOD
“...the entire Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh.” — God’s New Testament
Economy (1986, p. 230)
“The traditional explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and borders ontritheism. When the Spirit of God is joined with us, God is not left behind, nordoes Christ remain on the throne. This is the impression Christianity gives. Theythink of the Father as one Person, sending the Son, another Person, to accomplishredemption, after which the Son sends the Spirit, yet another Person. The Spirit,in traditional thinking, comes into the believers, while the Father and Son are lefton the throne. When believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Fatherand pray in the name of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separatePersons is not the revelation of the Bible....” — Life Messages, p. 164 (1979)
“The Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit.... and the Lord Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He is also the Father.Hallelujah!” — Concerning the Triune God, pp. 18-19 (1973)
"In resurrection, He became the life-giving Spirit" - 1998 Living Stream Ministry
ON THE NATURE OF HUMANITY
“Christ is of two natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we areof the human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and we arethe God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we are theboards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are different, but innature we are exactly the same.” — The All-Inclusive Christ, p.103 (1989)“God can say to His believers, ‘I am divine and human,’ and His believers canreply, ‘Praise You, Lord. You are divine and human, and we are human anddivine’.” — The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man, pp. 51-52 (1990)“My burden is to show you clearly that God’s economy and plan is to makeHimself man and to make us, His created beings, ‘God,’ so that He is ‘man-ized’and we are ‘God-ized.’ In the end, He and we, we and He, all become Godmen.”—A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing, p. 54 (1990)
“We the believers are begotten of God. What is begotten of man is man, andwhat is begotten of God must be God. We are born of God; hence, in this sense,we are God.” — A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing, p. 53 (1990)“Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ,we may say that the Triune God is now the ‘four-in-one’ God. These four are theFather, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body. The Three of the Divine Trinity cannot beconfused or separated, and the four-in-one also cannot be separated orconfused.” — A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing, p. 203-204 (1990)
ON THE AUTHORITY OF THE SCRIPTURES
“We do not need the Bible study classes; we need the weeping classes to weepfor the spiritual poverty and deadness. We must listen to the Spirit, not just readwhat is written. We must listen to the present, instant speaking of the livingSpirit. Why have Christians been divided? It is simply because of the differentteachings and doctrines. The more teachings there are, the more divisions therewill be. All the various teachings and opinions have done much damage to therecovery of the church. I fear that some of us are still under the influence of theBabylonian doctrines. May the Lord have mercy upon us that we may forsake allof those teachings, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. Let us go backto Jerusalem with the Spirit. We all must have our “heads cut off.” — The Stream“Then the fourth thing that we must see in order to participate is life! We allmust know life. Revelation is a book of life. Do not pay attention to the forms, theregulations, the teachings, the doctrines, Christianity and religion. No, we mustpay our full attention to life. Today, if you were to ask me how to be victorious, Iwould tell you that there is no need for you to try to be victorious. Just say fromdeep within, “O Lord, Amen, Hallelujah! O Lord, Amen, Hallelujah! O Lord, Amen,Hallelujah!” and you will be so victorious.” — The Stream
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These are the kinds of things they teach. All I've said is true. There's nothing that you presented that would indicate I've misrepresented the Local Church, seeing as I'm simply quoting what they say and commenting on it. It is you who have overlooked the quotes I mentioned. Why are you trying to misrepresent them by overlooking what they themselves say? You're only a newcomer. If you want to defend their beliefs you need to make sure you know what their beliefs actually are. And then determine whether their beliefs are your beliefs.
You say concern the debates I've posted with Local Church people, "You put only those responses that you approve of. Many of them are very weak!!!" That's actually more of an insult to them. For what I have posted is typical of such debates and what I've posted is relatively comprehensive. Fact is there is no strong argument for the Local Church theology. And what you've written is just as weak as others. You say, "I challenge you to put this response on your web page." Fine, yet another weak Local Church response.

Local Church Responder
WORDY WORDY WORDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DEFINITELY don't see the presence of Christ in your RESPONSES!!

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