Dear mister who ever you are (afraid to put your name on such redicules garbage, I can understand) :
I hold a PreTrib Rapture position, by the way pre-trib rapture is not a theory, it's scriptural nnd factual ! I totally object as a pre-trib rapturists to some of the positions you claim we teach and hold to as pre-tribs. I will name a few you claim pre-tribs believe, but I can tell you, your either stating things about our position you don't know or your lying about them to make us appear unscriptural. For example, (lets start at top and work our way down) Pre-Trib Rapturists do not believe there is any events that must occur before the rapture takes place .we firmly believe in the Imminent Return of Christ for His Church could happen at any moment, nothing has to happen, the Rapture of the church is the next prophetic event to occur. Second, Pre-Trib Rapturists believe that "our gathering together unto Him" ( 2Thess 2:1 ) is the Rapture of the Church and "the day of the Lord" is the beginning of the tribulation period that follows. You claim we believe they are the same events and that is simply not correct. Third, your referrance to Daniel 7:25,,,,,,"the saints will be handed over to him" Pre-Trib Rapturists do not believe these are Church age saints, they've already been raptured, but it's referrance is those those saved during tribulation, who never heard the Gospel, mostly Jews, and even gentiles, through the witness of the Two prophets. Another, we as pre-triber's do not believe that the phrase "the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" is speaking of the Rapture, but rather of His Second Coming. In fact all of Matt 24, and 25 and IThess 5:1-4 and II Peter 3:10 and Luke 12:39,40 all have referrance to the Tribulation through the Second Coming and is in no wy connected to or referrs to the Rapture. You need to get your facts straight about what Pre-Tribulation Rapturists believe but I understand why you can't .your blinded to a false doctrine and you can't see the Truth. you spend so much time trying to prove the Pre-Triber's wrong when in reality you believe the same as we do about the Rapture. The only difference is you believe the Church goes through tribulation (1/2 or all .whatever) but fail to see the Promise of God to His Chruch . we will be delivered to God without spot Eph 5:27 Also,,,,,,Titus 2:13 I am "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"
Sincerely in Love and Truth,
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Dont let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
And he continues with the like. But consider carefully what is written here. Why were the Thessalonians not supposed to believe that the Rapture had already occurred? What does Paul teach here? He is not teaching the Pre-Trib theory that no events occur before the Rapture. He is saying that the reason why they should know that the Rapture hasn't occur is because certain events haven't yet taken place. So also this is advocated in the Matthew 24 passages as well.
I never stated what Pre-Tribers may or may not believe about this passage. I merely stated what the passage itself means. And so also with other passages. For where is it that I state what pre-tribers may or may not believe about certain passages? I didn't make such statements. I merely pointed out what I believe to be the Biblical interpretation of such passages, and that such an interpretation inherently contradicts the Pre-Trib position.
If you would like to state what is your interpretation of particular passages and my rebuttal to such an interpretation, I can develop such a web page. If you've viewed my web site you know that I often do that. But the fact that you don't even know my name indicates that you really haven't viewed much of the web site.
Now as for "the Lord coming as a thief in the night", I have met pre-tribers who do interpret that as the Rapture. However I clearly state right at the beginning of that section, "Some have proposed". You may not be one of those people, but nonetheless I have told the truth. I have not misrepresented other people's position. I've only briefly stated them at the beginning. Then I've shown what the Bible teaches.
Titus 2:13 is not unique to the pre-trib rapture position. But you seem to indicate that somehow Ephesians 5:27 proves the pre-trib position. Here's what that section says, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." So are you interpreting the "stain, wrinkle or blemish" to be physical? That is that God would never allow believers to be subjected to such suffering as to allow a wrinkle in their skin or blemish on their face or a stain on their clothes. Man where have you been living! If that's the pre-trib position it's even more bizarre than I imagined.
What really strikes me about the pre-trib position is that the kinds of things that believers have been suffering throughout the ages, even today in Islamic countries and elsewhere, is what pre-tribers seem to think that God will certainly not subject them to. It just seems to me that given the lack of scriptural evidence and your quote from Eph 5:27, that the pre-trib position is simply motivates out of cowardice and perhaps hedonism. How dare God make things unpleasant for you. How dare He make you go through suffering in life. But in contrast notice what he allowed His own Son to go through. And we're supposed to walk as Jesus did.
Philippians 3:10 "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death."
2Timothy 1:8 "So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God."
1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.
The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources
The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources Jul 29,2015