Round 1


The following "Local Church" Responder, Peter Jang, requested that I post the following discussion.

Local Church Responder

Hey Steve,

Well, I am from the Church in Berkeley and you requested to know what people found offensive about your site. After you answer my question please consider posting them on your website, just to show that you're honest. Well, to me it seems that you're saying that only believers who follow Christ perfectly will be saved and that everyone else will perish eternally in hellfire, including believers who genuinely recieve the Lord but still continue to sin. There is definitely a difference between eternal life and salvation. Eternal life refers to that every believer who believes into Christ will dwell with Him forever in the New Jerusalem. Salvation not only includes eternal life but also ourselves being sanctified and transformed and being mature unto Christ and being saved from the world, our mind, and our old self. For those who don't hear this call to overcome (Rev 2 and 3), they will have to suffer a dispensational punishment for 1000 years in order to mature as the precious stones and the unblemished wife in the New Jerusalem. How, God will mature us by His dispensational punishment even though we have been given eternal life through grace, I don't know but we just believe that God will work it out to produce His Bride( song of songs, Eph 5) and the New Jerusalem(Revelations). However, you yourself should forget about the dispensational punishment and simply live the overcoming life in Christ as your center and the source. It's good how you've met with us firsthand. However, when it came to this topic I think there was a lack of fellowship between you and the Church Elders concerning this subject.

As for deemphasizing the work of the cross, I do admit that we do but the thing is that God's plan goes beyond the cross and back to His plan for us to eat Him as the tree of life and in eternity as the New Jerusalem and the Bride. It's just a mere step but we do mention it such as in the "Mystery of Human Life" gospel track but it's part of His redemptive process to fill us earthen vessels with Himself as the treasure. (2 Corinthians)

As for calling on the Lord three times and getting saved without believing in the redemptive work on the cross is possible and I have to ask you if you have been at such an event. They simply want to get filled with the Lord Jesus and thus fulfill God's plan. One such thing is in Ecclesiastes where he mentioned "God placed eternity in man's heart" and how vain life is without God to satisfy Him. I've seen it happen and it's pretty amazing. He might be a little bit unsure of His salvation but we present Romans 10:9-14 to the person and eventually He will hear about the cross of Christ. Therefore, beleiving into Jesus is still the way whether it's His death on the cross or God's eternal plan to enter into his spirit.

I hope this clears up any confusion that you may have had. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask me about it. I'm no big bible expert in terms of knowing tons of references nor even read the entire  but I do have at least some heart that is open to what the Lord wants. It's simply  God and His Church and this should be our top two priorities. Don't get too over-analyzing where you neglect God entirely and learn to turn to your spirit. As for the modalist claim see my topic on the bereans discussion board under local church. It will help provide further answers for you.  Grace be with you.

Your Brother, Peter Jang


BCBSR Response

Peter,

You say you're from "the Church in Berkeley". I assume you mean that demoninational church "Witness Lee's Local Church in Berkeley", much as you may be offended by the term. For you are not the only legitimate assembly of believers in Berkeley. There are many other churches besides your own.

Now you say that you are responding to my request to know what people found offensive about the site. Yet based upon what you have said I don't perceive that you have actually read much of the bcbsr.com site. Perhaps you're referring to the "Witness Lee's Local church" web page, which is just one of a thousand pages on the site.

Furthermore reading your objection it seems that you're not saying that I'm misrepresenting Witness Lee's position, but only that you object to a position that is contrary to his.

Concerning what you say I teach you say, "Well, to me it seems that you're saying that only believers who follow Christ perfectly will be saved and that everyone else will perish eternally in hellfire." No, I haven't said that, and if you read the rest of the site, which I encourage you to do, you would understand your error. For if your objection is to my theology then it would be good if you actually studied it so that you would not end up misrepresenting it yourself. For you see by "under-analyzing" what I said you could end up committing slander or the like.

You ask the question however concerning my experience "As for calling on the Lord three times and getting saved without believing in the redemptive work on the cross is possible and I have to ask you if you have been at such an event." It's right in the local church teaching. Let me quote, "We have seen that to reach the unbelievers, no preaching is necessary. If we help them say "O Lord" three times, they will be saved. If they open the window, the air will get in. All they have to do is to open their mouths and say, "O Lord, O Lord." Even if they have no intention of believing, still they will be caught! Regardless of whether they have the intention or not, as long as they open the window, the air will get in. It is not a matter of teaching; it is a matter of touching the seven Spirits of God."Witness Lee, Stream Magazine, Vlll: l, Feb l, 1970, 6.

And furthermore I was recently at a gospel meeting when one was sharing about a story of a man in China who used to ride his bike around and simply call out "O Lord Jesus" and tried to get other people -who had no knowledge of Christ to do the same so that by doing so they would be saved, having "called on the name of the Lord."

Let me further exhort you, as you say that you are not big on the Bible, that God's Word is living and active. It is the sword of the Spirit. Jesus defines Himself by the Word and does not teach or act contrary to the Word. If you're not in the Word, you're not in Jesus. Jesus is the Word. If a person claims to have some kind of organic experience of "Jesus" contrary to the Word of God (the Bible), then they are experience a false-Jesus. Mr 13:22  "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the electó if that were possible." Therefore there is the need for evaluation lest gullible Christians be led astray, as it is commanded, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1John 4:1 To discourage such evaluation with the objection that it may humiliate such elistist religious leader presumed to be infallible is to encourage disobedience to the Word of God - the Word of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus I am not put off by those who object to me questioning the legitimacy of their belief system. For my allegience is to the Word of God, which claims, "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood." 1John 4:6

Good Bible studying to you,

Steve Amato


Round 2

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

Edition: Jul 29,2015